First of all, a heartfelt thanks to Greg for providing a place like this to read, listen and voice my opinions with like-minded people. There are tragically few of these outside of the social media fishbowls that are Facebook, Youtube, Reddit, and the like. I've been listening to HSC since 2015 and have lurked in the forums as a guest now and then, but for various reasons never felt like I fit the culture enough to contribute as a member.
Now I just don't care - what is going on now is too critical to sit and watch from the sidelines.
I'm sure there are a lot of members like me who are finding themselves surrounded by people who are to some degree buying the mainstream narrative about the virus (personally I do believe it is a virus just like the cold or flu) . And unfortunately these people are also friends, roommates, spouses, relatives and other loved ones whom they don't want to alienate further. People they don't want to call "stupid" or "programmed" or "sheeple" because they know they are not; but rather intelligent people who are trying to form intelligent opinions in an overwhelmingly toxic environment.
But it would be really good right about now to stop sitting around and stroking ourselves for being part of the small percentage of the population who have a clue about the increasing levels of tyranny developing around us. I'm not proud of myself to think I'm part of this small, "exclusive" group. I'm horrified by it. That percentage should be 50%, or 80%! I should be part of the majority! A year or two from now, I don't want to think of myself as a social pariah, sitting in jail for refusing to pay a fine for refusing to submit to a mandatory vaccine - while all I'll have left is the vindication of knowing that I was right, after all. Sorry to sound cliched, but the time to act is now!
And acting is a subjective thing, but I humbly advise you to act with your words at this time. Not words that you type, but those that come out of your mouth. To the ones close to you, those I mentioned above.
Most importantly, listen to them first. They are probably more anxious than you are, and really need someone to listen to them. Go into this with the mindset of sharing information, not winning them over. If there's any cognitive dissonance at all, there will be a point where they will look for validation from you: a pause in the conversation, or maybe they will ask what you think. Maybe that point won't come and they just want to vent - then let them vent and let it go until you talk again. DON'T argue!
But if they are looking for validation, don't give it to them. Ask them for numbers. Ask them for facts. Ask where those facts and numbers came from. Act like you are genuinely interested (and maybe you are - which is totally fine). The questions you ask might get the wheels turning and maybe they will start fact checking themselves.
If they ask for your opinion, be prepared to express it. Consider your sources and who you are talking to. For example, I have a coworker who grew up in Connecticut and told me that he has a childhood friend who lost his son at Sandy Hook. No matter what my personal beliefs are, I probably won't be telling him to listen to John Rappoport. And though I love David Icke to bits I probably won't be mentioning him to many people either. There's a reason why these guys aren't no-platformed yet - they are on the fringes and are not considered a threatening influence.
But there are a lot of people who are more acceptable to the mainstream, brave doctors and scientists with credentials and reputation and letters behind their names that make people feel better about listening to them. Most of those I've seen so far have valid talking points about everything from unreliable tests to corrupted statistics to the absolute stupidity of the government mandated methods of "flattening the curve". I mentioned one in another post and they are becoming easier to find. Hopefully they will soon outshine the charlatans who are playing them on TV. Find one who resonates with you and use their words to supplement your own.
This all applies double - triple! - if some of those loved ones you need to talk to are in the police or military. What kind of world do they want to help build?? Many - defiitely not all, but many- of these people are trying to do good, they want to feel like they are protecting their families and their neighborhood. Do they know at what point they are no longer the protector but the oppressor? Do they understand rule of law and when they are no longer supporting it? Make damn well sure that they know, and know with enough conviction that they will be able to refuse orders when they have to. This will be a challenge and they will need all of the support that they can get.
Talking with those close to us is our first line of defense. If this defense fails, our other options down the line, I guarantee will not be nearly as pleasant. This is the time for diplomacy - polarization is for politicians, and look where they got us!
To those of you who are thinking "screw it, if they are too stupid to see things my way, they deserve whatever they get." Are you aware that whatever reality they will get, you will get too? There is no opt out. We are all making these decisions together and will suffer the consequences together.
Please, let's try this, lets see if it works. If it does, maybe then we can all sit around and think about how brilliant we are and how we saw what was coming and did something about it. If it doesn't... well, maybe I'll save a seat for you in the cafeteria of the county jail.
TL/DR? I know, I write like a middle-aged electrical engineer who reads mostly non-fiction and hasn't written more than three consecutive paragraphs in the past few years. And probably a lot of this is stuff that you already know. So what. Please read it anyway. Thanks.
Theres a couple of things Id like to say. I'm not invalidating what anyone has said. Except maybe Richie from Boston.
Lets start with that. He says the only way a virus is spread is through injection. If so how does the seasonal flu spread? If 99.9% of the people that get the flu got a seasonal vaccine thats not enough. 100% would be necessary.
That said, WE dont know what this thing is.
We are told it came from a Wohan fish market some 900k from a bat cave. Somehow the bats infected the market or people or something.
Wohan has Chinas only level 4 bio research facility. Level 4 is the highest level. The nastiest diseases in the world would be found there. I bring that up cause conspiracy. It honestly doesn't matter.
So the next point. Is this real in any way?
I think it is. Whatever it is I think people are getting sick.
How about the response from the governments then. Ill put it out there that if we see this explode the response was inquietude. The opposite of that is, If its no big deal we did it right.
Ok so whats been asked of us? Me personally in my area its to take an extended stayacation and stay away from people as much as possible.
Lets look at a couple of scenarios. first the economy collapses and the empire falls. How great would that be. (I dont see how a digital economy could possibly fall. Stock market is still viable, precious metals are cheap. Not possible in a real economy IMHO.)
Maybe marshal law. Troops on every corner. In my small community of 15k people there are a dozen cops and half a dozen sheriff. It would take a platoon of military just for this podunk town. We carpet bombed Iraq, a place where guns are illegal and we are still fighting there. Not going to happen here. Too many of us are armed.
What if its all fake. Nobody got sick and nobody died. Then we got some time off and potentially some new opportunity arise after. Financial institutions are gong to have to be flexible. They arnt coming to throw the entire world out of their houses.
So what if its real? Let me illustrate it this way. Imagine the Gov or whoever made it clear that the business you own can be run fully staffed BUT if an employee or one of their family members dies from the virus you personally will be held liable for murder. Do you believe your conscious wont remind you of this for the rest of your life? And that is the most selfish way to look at this.
My suggestion at this point. Lets keep a calm, party on attitude. Take care of our family and friends, and extend that to our community.
We remain vigilant. We strengthen our tribe. And we prepare.
One last thought. Before we "convert the elect" we should review Plato's allegory of "The Cave". Stephen Molyneux does a nice short run through.
Regarding the economy, yes, the markets and such will carry on, but to whose benefit? The very wealthy are going to come out smelling like roses. Of the very well to do, some will lose their millionaire status. A lot of retired middle class are going to find their nest eggs dwindled to the point they don’t have enough left to live on for their remaining years. And there’s a huge section of the population that live paycheck to paycheck and are forbidden to work. This staycation has now been extended to May 4th. How are they going to meet their May rent? How many already couldn’t pay for April?
Economic collapse reaches well beyond the trading markets.
I agree its a nasty scenario. The top will work it so they do just fine. The rest of us are squeezed as usual. That why I say I would love to see 100 million people default on their mortgages and the banks go out of business. Then with no one to collect, everyone's digital debts would be gone.
Course we know that wont happen. The financial institutions will do ANYTHING to avoid that including a pause of couple of months of payments. They already do. It takes a long time to foreclose on a house. and its not worth anything sitting empty. That time 100 million.
All that said how many people am I willing to expose to a disease Ive been told is going to kill 250k Americans to make a paycheck?
As I stated above this should be little more than a speed-bump to most of us physically otherwise we did it wrong still.
This has been mismanaged from the start. It should have been stopped in Wuhan, then in China, then in the USA. All travel should have been banned at each step. We are living under these restrictions and planes are still in the air. Now we are all sitting at home stewing and its a bunch of BS that it ever got this far! How much money is spent on military again? I know, slow the spread. Give us all a chance to get it.
So what would you have us do?
Here in Oregon there are PSA's on billboards, TV and online that are flat-out stating that if you go outside you can potentially infect and KILL up to 6 people! Those words in big block letters against a bright police-tape yellow background. And an hour ago my roommate and I heard the echoing clamor of our neighbors outside banging pots and pans while cheering for medical workers and first responders.
Honestly I'm not sure if it's wise or mentally healthy for me to try and think about what "we" (i.e. everyone) are going to do. I can't decide for people who are framing their reality completely different.
My beliefs about the virus cause me to give it as much concern as the regular flu, but out of respect for others I'll adhere to social distancing guidelines, and observe all of the low-impact grocery shopping and hand-sanitizing folkways of this strange new culture like a polite visitor from a far away land.
If I were the owner of a "non-essential" business (whatever that really means), I would probably close at precisely when required and lay off my employees so that they could immediately pursue unemployment.
But the buck stops there for me. I won't wear a mask. I'm not bringing a stupid commuter "hall pass" document with me when I drive around. If someone asks my opinion about all of this, I'll tell them directly. And most importantly if someone comes knocking at my door with a vaccine, I will practice my right of informed consent and choose not to.
Thinking about what I personally will do calms me down a little, but at the same time I think it is a good thing to stay a bit angry and focused through all of this so I can hold my ground when I need to.
I think we are all thinking along the same lines. The world is messed up, but I'm not ready to do what needs to be done to fix it. But damn we are getting close.
metalegs wrote: I agree its a nasty scenario. The top will work it so they do just fine. The rest of us are squeezed as usual. That why I say I would love to see 100 million people default on their mortgages and the banks go out of business. Then with no one to collect, everyone's digital debts would be gone.
Course we know that wont happen. The financial institutions will do ANYTHING to avoid that including a pause of couple of months of payments. They already do. It takes a long time to foreclose on a house. and its not worth anything sitting empty. That time 100 million.So what would you have us do?
The potential here of people defaulting on mortgages is the banks will then have their wealth converted to real estate. They’d probably get bailed out again despite they’re up to their ears in non-liquid assests. Then they sell the properties to investors who turn them into rentals. The only way I can see it working is if those 100m property owners have enough cash in reserve to be able to bring their mortgages current before losing their homes and they’re in a position to weather out the black mark falling off the credit reports. But even then is the possibility that the banks will be able to refuse payment and complete the foreclosure. A side note, if you’ve put your money with the same bank that holds your mortgage, they can (unless illegal in your State) take the money you owe from your accounts.
‘What I would have us do is close our accounts and move our money to credit unions (which are member owned) and/or small local banks. Of course the big banks will still have our retirement money held in 401k’s and such but IRA’s could be moved. Big banks would definitely feel the pinch if done en mass. I think we missed a tremendous opportunity for this during Occupy Wallstreet. The movement should have called on the public to take this action.
Edited for confusing spelling error
Great thread, these are a lot of my questions and concerns too. It's hard not to argue, or share information that doesn't prompt an argument, but be kind and patient. I just have a lot of hope that on the other side of this, when we're not in the eye of the storm, a greater percentage of people will be more skeptical of what they just went through. A new "9/11 wake up moment" if we're lucky.
I appreciate this dialogue. Thanks for that.
In a real...realm. (sorry for the bias, I just cant see how much of this could be "real") there would be a problem with throwing too many people out of a town, the town has no workers. no workers or consumers means business go out of away. With no business or work in town the properties are worthless.
There are tons of communities in the midwest that are almost empty, no jobs and super cheap properties. Gas is 1.18 in Missouri as of yesterday.
But when digital cash flows I know not where. Who knows what could happen? Maybe they will move out all the current "owners" (if someone can legally take it you don't own it) and move in refugees with federal money? (j/k)
On a serious note "they" already own everything. My house, which is payed off yet I pay them for the privilege of living in it in the form of taxes and all the space between my house and yours. (they own) I dont see why they would be in a hurry to remove people who have a vested interest in keeping the payments going.
But there is the fable of the Scorpion and the Frog (turtle?) and Trump read The Snake.
UNLESS there is a reset due. There seems to be major reshuffles every so often. Look at the turn of the century architecture vs now. Why did so many major executives resign at the same time?
Is this virus a smoke screen for something else? There were a ton of trucks on the highways before this started. I did a fair about of interstate travel and it was amazing how much stuff was shipped by truck at that time. A friend reported there are almost no trucks on the road. At least nothing like before.
With all that I still maintain there is a real virus and its suicidal to expose ourselves to it. I would fight to the death for your right to your own opinion and course of action.
TheCarlwood wrote: Great thread, these are a lot of my questions and concerns too. It's hard not to argue, or share information that doesn't prompt an argument, but be kind and patient. I just have a lot of hope that on the other side of this, when we're not in the eye of the storm, a greater percentage of people will be more skeptical of what they just went through. A new "9/11 wake up moment" if we're lucky.
Hi Greg!
Did I miss something? I haven’t felt like anything here was an argument but rather a discussion and sharing of points of view.
Although it wouldn’t be unheard of for my tone to come across in a way I didn’t intend. 😮 If so, y’all call me on it so I can live and learn. But I’ll want Kudos if it caused an appearance from The Carlwood 😉
I hope you’re right about this becoming another wake up call. I’m afraid I don’t hold as much hope. I’ve lost sight of much of my optimism in the spring of my old lady years. That’s why I need all you young ‘uns around. (I’ve outted myself. That isn’t exactly my current pic up there. Because we’re not Elders anymore. We’re irrelevant <— she said with a wry smile)
BTW I love having this forum and everyone here. I think its kept pretty chill. So refreshing that folks can post a comment and not have to deal with it becoming a political cat fight. On the rare occasions that someone has tried to do so, their comment was completely ignored. And that was the end of that.
