New guests please!

Lazarus, 

 For those new to Jan Irvin, which of his books or works would you suggest to begin?

In Gratitude,

Dawn Amber

first of all i want to point out i am a fan of Jan's work, specifically regarding the see eye a's involvement in the 60s counter culture. 

see, 

https://logosmedia.com/spiesinacademicclothing_mkultra

however, i do think he sees things in too much of a black and white manner. for example, he claims someone in the above article is in intelligence which simply isn't the case. i've known said person for over 10 years and he simply is not.  now now now, i know what you are thinking....do i know 100% ?... no, but i would bet my life on it, that is how sure i am. 

and jan seems to imply that because the see eye a was involved in 60s...then that whole movement and  everybody invovled in that movement is tainted. i just don't see it as that black and white. 

for example, just because mckenna was recruited by them doesn't mean everything mckenna says is wrong. 

i can't remember where i read this, but i recall leary saying he never took money from the see eye a... the implication was that he somehow worked with them but drew the line at taking money. 

and just because the grateful dead were funded by their money to get started to me doesn't make their music not amazing. full disclosure i am a dead head and love their music. i actually think the see eye a's involvement makes it a more interesting story and i am of the opinion that music transcends terrestrial powers. 

i mean, what would you propose one do if the see eye a requested a meeting with you? if you are approached by them then those are meetings / offers one can't refuse. i would imagine if you are approached by them then you either agree to collaborate with them or end up dead. 

for example, bob weir talks about a talk he gave a bohemian grove with some big mil industrial complex guy, name escapes me at the moment. 

i can assure you, if i am ever asked to speak at bohemian grove i would certainly accept. how in gods name does one turn down such an offer.. this isn't like not attending your cousins wedding...lol

i haven't listened to jan's interview with greg but can imagine how it went. i corresponded with jan via email years ago and i perceived his behavior as rude. you can call me butt hurt or whatever but i just don't like to associate with people i perceive as rude. maybe greg feels the same way.... 

and to be clear here, i even agree with stuff jan says, for example in the above cited essay, he says---

-- --- ---- ---------- 

Somewhere within the United States the technology for the creation of the perfect slave state is being perfected. Whether or not the mind-controlled state becomes a reality depends not so much upon the efforts of the cryptocrats, but upon the free will, determination, and strength of character of the American people. [195]
~ Walter Bowart

"It’s ok to get angry. But more importantly, use that anger to act – now. Your freedom is at stake. And your free will, determination, and strength of character, will determine how this battle ends. Do you want to be free, or a slave? Choose."

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i agree with this 100%, i'm just of the opinion that everybody that has ever had a meeting with the see eye a is not part of the cryptocracy.... also, i would argue that everyone in the see eye a is not part of the group trying to create a perfect slave state. 

i'm also of the opinion that it is ok to get angry but draw the line of projecting that anger on someone who agrees with you on 75% of what you are saying

and to be clear, i desire no beaf with jan. i think he is doing great work, i just don't agree with it 100% and i minimize my contact with people i perceive as rude