I am thinking about Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Pennsylvania. I am currently in Philadelphia and need to get out and start planting fruit and nut trees, but I love my job here. Rural Eastern PA is quite expensive and the property taxes can be pretty ridiculous. So property value and property taxes are high on my list. West Virginia has very little regulation about rain catchment, off-grid power, and building additional structures. My current searches get narrowed down fairly quickly looking for affordable acreage with woods, well water, existing home, existing outbuiding/s, and high speed internet, because I run some servers and would like to run more when I have a solar array. Mountains, deciduous trees and being within an hour of a University with a program at which I might be able to teach are some of my considerations. But like Philadelphia, Academia isn't the best locale to be reliant on, so I am not married to that and haven't been teaching for most of the pandemic because of covid policies. How far away do you want to be from a nuclear power plant or some other potential target of a nuclear attack or false flag nuclear attack could be a consideration. Also, just the nature of the specific property, is the house visible from the road? Does it back against state forests or undeveloped land? Does it look good for swales, terraces, grazing, hunting, etc. I've lived in Louisiana, South Carolina, and Georgia which precludes me from considering Texas or the deep South or southwest because I don't like the oppressive heat. I was honestly thinking about moving to Canada before Covid happened, but seeing the Covid response there changed mind.
@aaaa Right on, thanks for the great response. I feel the same about the search getting quickly narrowed down when considering all the things you mentioned. West Virginia sounds promising though. Feel like they are kind of a forgotten state and that can be a good thing sometimes if people leave it alone. I just don't know anything about the weather there or land or well anything really. Never really researched that area much. You do get "mountains" over there, or at least a change in topography so it's not just flat land for miles, so that's nice. Idk, I'd be interested to here what you find out if you start looking in any of those places.
And it's funny you mention Canada because my wife and I really considered moving there too a couple different times before covid. Luckily we didn't do that. We also considered New Zealand, which obviously would have been just as bad. But yes, those places are obvious no-no's at this point. It's really crazy how far they are taking it there with everything really; i.e. covic response, new gun laws/buybacks, social justice stuff, etc.
Costa Rica
@ptutt777 Nice, any specific reasons why? I've looked into Costa Rica a bit and they have some excellent farmland down there. It's easy to get a semi permanent visa too which is dope, I think you "only" have to bring 100,000 or 150,000 investing money down there. That includes buying a house so it doesn't have to be straight cash.
I listened to it, it was a really good conversation although I didn't expect some of Joel's takes. Like disease-carrying ticks being a reason to avoid the Ozarks. Maybe I should value what diseases are spread by local wildlife more but I think it would have to be really serious to prevent me from moving somewhere. The water situation seems more important to me too. Yeah you can find enough water almost anywhere to sustain yourself but not always enough for crops or livestock, especially during a historic drought. Well water seems suitable for most uses though, even farming, until usage exceeds the amount being replenished. I'm told my great grandfather used just a dowsing rod to decide where to put a well lol but I wouldn't want to take the risk of it running dry after SHTF and the local well drillers have been cannibalized. I grew up on well water and it was great but we had a time where we had to get it drilled about twice as deep. Apparently the water table dropped after years of new home construction in the area, so it's not realistic to presume water is always going to be abundant, even in wetter areas. I think it would be good to have a large river or lake nearby as an emergency backup (plus good soil near the banks). Water pollution, algae blooms, parasites, brain-eating amoebas, etc. are worth taking into consideration though.
The red/blue state issue is more important to me for daily life quality (less taxes, regulations and socialists) before SHTF or if SDEHTF. All the governors and top state officials are in the Big Club and will fall in line when it comes down to it, so the team color doesn't really matter in the grand scheme as much as it can culture-wise. I know someone who visited Gallup, NM a few months ago and said the whole town was masked up. You'd think the Native Americans would be the most untrusting of the government but they're surprisingly compliant. If the government really cracked down on Covid (like in parts of Canada, Australia or NZ) I would prefer to be around unruly rednecks than pleasant sheep who make the enforcers' jobs easy. I don't know if the government could still have a hold on power in a "natural" SHTF situation like a pole shift or solar flare but they definitely have more plandemics, manmade disasters and wars up their sleeves. So I'm mostly planning down the middle because I really don't know what's going to happen to this country or the planet but I definitely don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about it.
@dbittick Yea I feel like the idea that fresh drinking water, not to mention water for livestock or to farm) is going to abundant seems a bit naïve to me. There's probably a bit of salesmanship in it too, he does have a book to push and his ideas on where the best places are to strategically relocate (i.e. the intercontinental mountain states) generally don't really have that much water. Idk, feel like when someone is that invested in an idea or w.e., they want to highlight things that support that idea. Eh, to each their own but I don't agree that good water is going to be easy to find when SHTF. In fact I think it will be probably the most valuable resource one can procure. Also didn't really understand how if you think there is going to be a nuclear WW3 scenario, you wouldn't consider fallout that would pollute drinking water making it even more scarce...idk, maybe he rectifies that idea but saying not to live anywhere near where the fallout would be..? Eh, would be a decent point. To the point though, I've been looking at NW MT on advice from another person in this thread and gotta say that is a very interesting area. I just don't know about farming up there although some of the water features do seem to make for a more temperate climate.
Man, I've been to NM probably 5-6 times in the last 2-3 years just to do some ground recon on different areas and some land and yea it is really complaint down there. I mean, even when I got out to the more country areas it still seemed like people where masking up at like gas stations, etc. On the native reservations, they literally had dudes with guns outside gas stations, store, etc., that would not let you in without a mask, and this was like less then 3-4 months ago. It was really weird.
NW Montana near Flathead lake isn’t near any major military bases or activity. It has it’s own temperate climate because of the size of the lake. Major mountain ranges protect us from everyone else and Canada is pretty empty above us. There is water everywhere! We are already set up as a community for self sufficiency. Most jobs revolve around food production, raw land improvement, off grid living, survivalist interests, logging and wood production, small businesses, locally run businesses, ranching and everything that is useful to the community. The winter isn’t that bad (but keep that a secret) it’s just long enough to keep out the weak people. We didn’t have any homeless until just this past month they’ve been dropped off by mysterious vans, but law enforcement is the most people-friendly I’ve seen so far. The sheriff will in fact be your buddy in a small town and back you up to protect your land. They don’t spend all their time collecting speeding tickets, in fact I never even see them on the roads. Kalispell and many other towns do not fluoridate their water because the towns had enough backbone to fight it off. Marijuana is legal, and if it ever wasn’t nobody cared LOL. Whitefish and that college town.... what’s it called Missoula are Liberal, but everywhere else is conservative. We’ve got the absolute best laws that support freedom out of everywhere in the country. No one wears masks or cares about “germs”. In fact everyone is pro-dirt and pro-germs and those who aren’t Cant stop others from living their lives because they are the minority. I love it, it’s absolutely phenomenal. Only tough, rustic people can survive and live here and so it weeds out the weak, thank heavens.
There are a lot of days where we don’t have chem trails, though most days they do spray. We don’t have sales tax. Our properties tax is super low.
@alceaholistichealth Man right on, thank you for the first hand experience, I really appreciate it. I've been looking at that area around Flathead lake and a little more NW of it for a couple days now since reading your post and it def looks super dope. It's pretty awesome how the lake really does make for a more temperate climate there. I lived in Powers, MT for awhile when I was young adult and man the winters there were really bad, but looking at weather data from Kalispell specifically that doesn't seem to be the case around that area. When you say some jobs revolve around good production, is there farming there? I did find in my research some tract of land that will say they are fertile or good for farming, good hay production, etc., but I don't see a lot of actual farms. Not that is a big deal I was just wondering. Maybe they just aren't for sale or w.e., so I was wondering if when you say food production do you mean farming or something else? Again, thanks for the great response, this is exactly what I was looking for with this post. This gives me a whole new area to look at and consider, thank you.
@astronautrob Yeah, it rocks here! As for farms, there is more of an effort to start up local farms. People here do a lot of personal farming. I actually haven’t been to the farmers market yet, and I know that would give me a better idea of the farms up and running here. I know for a fact GMO crop fields is very, very low. Everyone is free ranging their cattle and livestock and there is plenty of local hay and straw. Again wish I could say more about grains, legumes and fresh vegetables and fruit. Our growing season is fairly short, but really not terribly short. Much longer than alaska, where I lived for a while. If you want advice about cold and heat hearty breeds of animals, I can help you out with that!
@alceaholistichealth Yes it does look super dope there for sure. I have added to my list of places and have been doing a good bit of research on the area so far. Do you personally have a garden or farm anything or raise animals there? Just curious. We have a homestead here is CO Springs with a pretty decent size garden and it's kind of difficult to grow a lot of things. Granted we are much higher altitude here, I think, but the climate is similar when compared to Kalispell, MT. They are both places that are pretty and dry and Kalispell has a shorter growing season then CO Springs. Idk, just things I've noticed when trying to grow stuff here and with a shorter growing season I wonder if you could even get certain things to grow, i.e. fruit trees. But yes the farmers market would give you some idea of what people where able to grow. Obviously things like citrus would be a no-go but there are def some cherry, peach, plum, etc., that you can find that are adapted to the dryness and colder climates, I just don't know if they can do the shorter growing season. Idk, would be cool to find out though. Anyway, those are just some thoughts. Kind of ballin up there with the prices too, haha. It's to be expected though, MT is a little bit higher priced generally then a place like MO or AK. But other then that it really does check a ton of boxes in my relocation check list or w.e.
@astronautrob so I looked in to the farming. It’s great! Many farms here already. 20-25 degree raised temp if you put covered beds with a hoop house, double insulation and solar efficiency so you can extend your growing season by multiple months. Takes some infrastructure that isn’t very expensive. Super simple tech that fixes basically all of our problems. We have enough sun to do this sort of stuff, so good news. Most fruit trees, vines and berries grow great here! We are a prime area for cherries, apples and things like that. We have helped with HUGE harvests, it’s pretty awesome. We’re in an easy place to grow because with the extra tech you can warm any area up, but when it’s way too hot in other states it’s very difficult to cool the land down.
Montana has lifelong car registration! So once you register you are set for life. Kalispell area and the Flathead valley has super cheap electricity because we produce it ourselves at the dam in Polson. Everyone is pro gun, and there are many businesses selling and making gun stuff. We are constitutional carry.
And the lake has the cleanest water in the Western region.
Trying to fit in everything that is awesome about this place hahah there’s so much
@astronautrob we just started up our farm, less than one year in. We have sheep, meat rabbits, variety of chickens, ducks, livestock guardian dog. Mountain lions roam this area, so everyone has dogs. We haven’t had the chance to set up our garden yet, but that’s in the works. Tons of natural foraging that responds great to permaculture. Great place for growing mushrooms.
There are some pieces of land around us that you could score a loan for. Lots of raw land available , too. Montana prices are high but thank goodness there is still a lot of land available
@alceaholistichealth I really appreciate all this information on this new area (for me), and honestly MT has jumped to 2nd place on my list right now in places I'm researching heavily (right behind CO). I'll say it again, it's crazy how the lake moderates the temp so much there, it's really amazing. Is there anything objectively bad you could say about the area? Or maybe an area specifically around Flathead Lake that you would not want land for some reason or another? Just wondering because the area is fairly large and we are in the initial stages of planning our visit there to recon the area (there's a group of 4 of us in this venture) and want to make sure we make the most of our time. Thanks in advance, this has super helpful I really mean it.
Hmm... the tourism is pretty annoying, but that’s alright because if travel ever becomes very restricted the tourism won’t be a problem anymore lol. We’ve got Californians moving in just like everywhere, but they usually leave for the winter, so I’m hoping travel is restricted permanently starting some winter 😂. You still come across the same archetypes of people, but better versions. Like there is the grumpy, crabby old man but at least he respects personal property. And there’s the nosy, annoying female neighbor who is fake to your face and stabs you behind your back, but there aren’t any crazy laws for her to use against you so she doesn’t have much power, that sort of thing. I’m sure you’re already on top of avoiding HOAs and stuff. The government will show up the second day you arrive to tax you, and take their sweet time to do the required survey of your raw land before you can put in septic, but your neighbors will keep your location quiet should any suspicious figures come around asking.
Husband and I would have a great time meeting you on your trip if you wanted! He travels through every state in the lower 48 so he’s great for sharing info about locations. If you want to email me I definitely have some locations to suggest to you, my email is passiflora1111@protonmail.com. I would suggest avoiding dry areas that are mostly grassy if you can (those are where the wildfires usually start) and the Indian rez, as land can be tricky there, but I’m not a pro on that.
@TheCarlwood - last you mention on the Joint Session, it was probably down to a choice between Colorado and Washington. I might be able to sway your decision with one simple suggestion: look up the town that can truly justify throwing “sunny” in front of its name despite a PNW locale… Sequim, WA!
The sunny part is earned due to its placement directly in the center of a rain-shadow cast by the Olympic Mountains. That extra clear-sky weather turns it into the perfect climate for all kinds of non-PNW agriculture, which is why it hosts the annual Lavender Festival, one big draw for people who might visit. You can travel from the beach to the mountains in about 30 minutes, which is why the Dungeness River hosts one of the quickest descents in the state.
This used to be dairy-farming territory, and a few silos still stand here and there. You can still find cattle grazing just about anywhere out here. Any other kind of livestock you might think of can be found around here, including Emu and Peacocks. The farmers market is booming for a community of 7000 (mostly retirees at average age of 56), and one could literally pluck salmon from a creek during this time of year.
I grew up here, moved out to live in Seattle and then Portland, only to find synchronicity bringing me back after 20 years to run one of the best dispensaries in the state (owned by the local native Tribe). Yes, a great state for cannabis 🙂
Sequim has some of the most beautiful geography one can find on this planet, a reason why I am only one of few people who find themselves coming back after searching for greener grass elsewhere…
This area has ancient native history dating back over 10,000 years (literally, spearheads in mammoth bones found around a “flood story” monument that is a sight to behold), plenty of foraging and hunting for those who thrive on survival skills, and even one of (in my opinion) the craziest stories from the “satanic panic” of the 80’s.
Last but not least, we are in a zone where the wind always blows from the West, coming off the Pacific or from Canada - this gives me comfort when I imagine possible nuclear fallout scenarios (the air circulates more in the mountains, but as you head north to the beach, it always travels East).
Oh, and a recent guest claimed that Seattle area would definitely be a target for nuclear strike, but he was a bit off regarding how Bangor submarine base might factor: 4 of 5 nuclear subs are ALWAYS out on patrol, with only one ever located at base. They do leave half the nuclear stockpile at base at any time, but that just equates to the dirtiest of dirty bombs that could ever be imagined if that stockpile were hit in a nuclear strike, and the whole West Coast would become inhabitable with that action. This is not a likely scenario given the percentage of China’s wealthy that have family living between Seattle and Vancouver, Canada. I am no expert at all, but I do imagine that NORAD / Central Command would be hit with much, much more than our PNW military bases might see.
But to put a cherry on top, I will say three things: real estate is affordable (400k for a good 3b/2bth) and will not go down in price (had the most expensive per-vote election in the USA one year based on a proposed property tax increase). You are also NOT stuck in a “blue state” area here; we are very rural, with far too many retirees… doesn’t matter whether you are homesteading in the hills or kicking it in the neighborhood. Lastly, there is real magic in this area, the kind that makes it the perfect place to raise a family. I couldn’t be more thankful for my years growing up here, and my wife and I know that our 10 month old daughter will be growing up in one of the cleanest, brightest, and healthiest places this great globe has to offer!
@trustfall ... crazy how sunny it is there, I lived in Port Angeles for a couple years and it was always cooler and wetter, and what, 15 minutes away? I did love the area though, but if I had my choice at that point I'd hop over to Victoria BC... such a cool little town. 🙂
@josh785 Victoria is amazing. Honestly, we have talked about moving there if we could, several times. The culture of a city without being too big or too urban… If it hadn’t been for the vaccine requirement to travel there, we might have tried to make something work… I still wouldn’t rule it out of our future if the current ever starts pulling us in that direction again!
Port Angeles is pretty cool as well, you would think it could have some of that Victoria-style character if a few things grew in the right direction. Peninsula College definitely helps on the culture front!
@josh785 Don't you have to vaccinated to travel to Canada? Idk, seems like Canada has lost all it's luster for me. Gun "buybacks", vaccination discrimination, very harsh covid response, etc., do you think you could deal with stuff like that? Just wondering. Idk, maybe it's better in some parts of Canada than others...? I'm not sure, do you have any information on that?
@astronautrob ... yeah, you probably don't want to go there, but going from Washington state and a sleepy little fishing town, then crossing the water and ending up in a beautiful European looking city, it's pretty confusing... when I lived there I would go to Victoria all the time and never wanted to cross back to Washington lol
@trustfall Right on, thanks for the detailed information on the area. This post didn't have anything to do with where Greg is moving, or trying to convince him to move a certain place, so if that if your goal you may want to start a new thread so he will maybe engage with you there. I think there may be an area in the forum to respond specifically to joint sessions...? Idk. Anyway, the area you live sounds super dope though, some very good things about it thank you for sharing.
