First of all just wanted to say thank you guys for doing this episode; I hear where you're coming from and I like it. In a world where everyone's taking the many baits and being manipulated into fear-based reactions, it's nice to hear two mellow guys telling everyone that it is seriously important to mellow out. Relax! None of us is our body, we just ride it around. It is much better to work on a personal philosophy and a functional practice rather than arguing about utopic semantics on internets hosted by mega-corporate servers!
Greg's question about the huge bomb in the Middle East being called "MOAB" was on point, and Gordon's response, although delightful, was way off the mark. Sorry, Gordon, you probably just aren't a serious Bible scholar, and that is just fine. But I have a Smith's Bible Dictionary here in my lap, and there is some far more relevant information to take in concerning the conspicuous naming of said bomb:
Greg will like this part;
The Moabites national deity, "the subduer", is known as Molech, Moloch, and Chemosh, and in the book of Kings is also identified with Baal-peor, Baal-zebub, Mars & Saturn. In Judges he also appears as the god of the Ammonites. "Solomon introduced, and Josiah abolished, the worship of Chemosh at Jerusalem."
The land of Moab is located in the Middle East; I'm not a Biblical geographer, but that could be exactly where it was allegedly dropped. Given our narrative of the past couple hundred years of ancient artifacts being looted and sites being destroyed, I tend to think the war with "ISIS" is largely a history-destroying agenda, among other things. The last historical/geographical trace of the name Moab (according to Smith's) is attached to the town of Kir-moab, which has the modern name "Kerak". Search engine results of this name bring back some pretty interesting images ancient sites. My book also mentions an interesting artifact called "The Moabite Stone" if anyone wants to dig further into that and see if there's a reliable translation of its text available.
Moab means "of his father"; he was the son of Lot's eldest daughter and the progenitor of the Moabites. In the book of Chronicles they apparently fall out of favor: "At the death of Ahab the Moabites refused to pay tribute and asserted their independence, making war upon the kingdom of Judah. As a natural consequence of the late events, Israel, Judah and Edom united in an attack on Moab, resulting in the complete overthrow of the Moabites. Falling back into their own country, they were followed and their cities and farms destroyed. Finally, shut up within the walls of his own capital, the king, Mesha, in the sight of the thousands who covered the sides of that vast amphitheatre, killed and burnt his child as a propitiatory sacrifice to the cruel gods of his country. Isaiah predicts the utter annihilation of the Moabites; and they are frequently denounced by the subsequent prophets."
I'm sorry for the lengthy post, but I feel like this is all relevant to the name of that stupid bomb:
Molech means "king". "The fire-god Molech was the tutelary deity of the children of Ammon, and essentially identical with the Moabitish Chemosh. Fire-gods appear to have been common to all the Canaanite, Syrian and Arab tribes, who worshipped the destructive element under an outward symbol with the most inhuman rites. According to the Jewish tradition, the image of Molech was of brass, hollow within, and was situated without Jerusalem. 'His face was that of a calf, and his hands stretched forth like a man who opens his hands to receive of his neighbor. And they kindled it with fire, and the priests took the babe and put it into the hands of Molech, and the babe gave up the ghost.'
Molech was the lord and master of the Ammonites; their country was his possession, as Moab was the heritage of Chemosh; the princes of the land were the princes of Malcham. His priests were men of rank, taking precedence of the princes. The priests of Molech, like those of other idols, were called Chemarim."
If you look up that last word, Chemarim, it means literally "those who go about in black".
Also might be worthy of note for THCers that I just glanced down at the previous entry, and the word "Mnason" (yes, with an n, that is not a typo) means "remembering".
Lastly! Since I'm responding to this particular show:
One thing that get under my skin - on this show, and everywhere - is our tendency to relate everything back to some big pop-culture metaphor: Hey man, it's just like Jack Sparrow, West World, Star Wars, The Matrix, The Simpsons, and a million other ones. Sometimes they can be useful; okay, I like the Jack Sparrow metaphor in this context. But is that the name we have to give to our thoughts in the end? Can't we have that discussion and then end by calling it the Coyote Spirit phenomenon, or something that connects us back to the real world instead of the contrived one scripted for us by our oppressors? Just a thought. Over and out.
I appreciate your contextual remarks. I assumed MOAB was simply another government acronym for 'Mother Of All Bombs,' making reference to the fact it was the largest non-nuclear warhead in the arsenal.
snapturtle wrote:
Molech means "king". "The fire-god Molech was the tutelary deity of the children of Ammon, and essentially identical with the Moabitish Chemosh. Fire-gods appear to have been common to all the Canaanite, Syrian and Arab tribes, who worshipped the destructive element under an outward symbol with the most inhuman rites. According to the Jewish tradition, the image of Molech was of brass, hollow within, and was situated without Jerusalem. 'His face was that of a calf, and his hands stretched forth like a man who opens his hands to receive of his neighbor. And they kindled it with fire, and the priests took the babe and put it into the hands of Molech, and the babe gave up the ghost.'
Molech was the lord and master of the Ammonites; their country was his possession, as Moab was the heritage of Chemosh; the princes of the land were the princes of Malcham. His priests were men of rank, taking precedence of the princes. The priests of Molech, like those of other idols, were called Chemarim."
If you look up that last word, Chemarim, it means literally "those who go about in black".
It just occurred to me that the name Moloch seems to be reflected in the word 'immolation' (i.e. to burn), which comes from the Latin 'immolatio' (a sacrifice or offering). The etymology of that word posits that it comes from the Latin root 'mola' (meal), but I find that unlikely, as burnt offering were explicitly NOT for human consumption, but were to be left for the Gods. A tip of the hat to the ancient god of burnt offerings seems plausible.
Also 'Chemosh' (ke-mosh) sounds an awful lot like the Spanish 'Quemar' (ke-mar) which also means 'to burn'.
