Neither government or workplaces need be inherently authoritarian and totalitarian and democratic decision making is absolutely the antithesis of authoritarianism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_AIVZxmCbY
They certainly don't teach that in grade school.
Hisich: Well, I rest my case. Let's agree to disagree.✌️
enjoypolo wrote: I certainly agree that the electoral suffrage model is deceitful, since once you vote someone in office, you've effectively let your sovereignty away. At least the way it works now.
But I disagree to say government is inherently nefarious in its conception. We certainly gain some benefits by having public services like librairies, firefighters, the military, or the police, even though they may be mis-used in some case. In the case of France, we used to have a solid model of health care that was directly funded by public funds. It's still the case in many european countries as well.I think of as in every organization, the majority are good people, but the ones at the top are usually, corrupted psycopaths, due to the structures put in place over the last centuries. But then again, it doesn't make all organizations bad.
"Govt." is simply a legalized mafia (or a form of slavery that the participants pretend isn't slavery)...do what they command or they'll kill you.
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enjoypolo wrote: Hisich: Well, I rest my case. Let's agree to disagree.✌️
Cheers!
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"Corporations" are simply legalized psychopaths with limited liability (or a form of slavery that the participants pretend isn't slavery)...do what they command or they'll starve you.
It's structural and your description applies just as well to private industry.
shamangineer wrote: "Corporations" are simply legalized psychopaths with limited liability (or a form of slavery that the participants pretend isn't slavery)...do what they command or they'll starve you.
It's structural and your description applies just as well to private industry.
No, the "right to rule" is only considered by the vast majority of people to be legitimate when the corporation DBA "Govt." does it. Indeed, instead of starving us, private corps. LITERALLY feed us. Whole Foods doesn't scare me in the least...but govt. can murder me w/impunity.
Imagine, for a second, that govt. wasn't elected and did the SAME EXACT things it does now...how would you view it?
Imagine that govt. wasn't public, but private and did the SAME EXACT things it does now...how would you view it?
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I don't even work for Bezos and he scares the shit out of me. Here he is at the fashion nexus between Dr. Evil and Dr. Who.
It's a good point to mention, actually, because the last thing we need is a privately-funded basic income funded by none other than these megalomaniacs. Which I believe was on the Bilderberger's agenda last year where some Silicon Valley techie (Pete Thiel?) were discussing it. So we need to be aware of that.
But that's certainly not what Andrew Yang and Joe were discussing today. This one would form an integral part of the economy.
Enoypolo, I don't think your arguments have gone far with hisich. Mostly because he thinks Bezos' farts smell like liberty.
shamangineer wrote: Enoypolo, I don't think your arguments have gone far with hisich. Mostly because he thinks Bezos' farts smell like liberty.
That's okay, I don't necessarily want to impose my views on others. The problem I have with Libertarian-ism in general, is that it seems to me, like a reactionary position to a corrupted government, while ultimately giving near-total "liberty" to the same organizations that corrupted the gov in the first place, aka the Bilderberger-MIC, which includes Amazon, through things like de-regulation (also what's called ultra-liberalism).
By the way, those are usually the first comapanies to automatize their workplace, and treat their employees like a commodity.
Maybe it's a European thing, but I still believe in the wisdom of the crowds, or at least have faith in the good-ness of humans if only they can be given the space to grow. That's a big if, but there are many parts of the populations that can't provide their reached yet, including the US where so many people live paycheque to paycheque, if not worse (debt & loans, etc.).
1) One figure that's often cited is Maslow's hierarchy of basic needs (see below).
A population struggling financially will be pushed at the bottom of the pyramid, not able to climb up. Ideally, a UBI would guarantee a dignified subsistence, at least for its citizens.
Andrew Yang proposes $1,000/months or $12,000 USD/year per individual over 18.
For most people, that cash will be added to what they currently make.
I even open to think prisoners should be allowed to receive it, if it can help them rehabilitate to regular life better.
Again, for anyone who's done the fact research on previous UBI experiments, in places where it's been tried, generally you see a correlation between the pilot, and an increase across many social indicators, including things such as community volunteering, civic engagement, but even more importantly, better health, less high-school drop-out rates, less mental health issues, and so on.
Even the mediocre Finish experiment results confirm that.
2) Here's another case: Alaska's Permanent Dividend Fund is pretty much a UBI generated from the exploitation of oil companies on their territory. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see many Alaskans protesting that policy that's been giving them a meager UBI amounting to $2,000 annually for the last couple decades. Still better than nothing though.
3) In my senior year at college years ago, I presented the UBI and its stigmas in the Dauphin, Manitoba Mincome experiment of the 70's. What's become clear to me, was that receiving money from the government was considered morally taboo due to the stigmas associated with welfare recipients who are often viewed as lazy, or only for the ill and disabled.
Then there's the issue of welfare trap, which locks recipients into a dichotomy of either welfare or the low-level job (with now the risk of losing the welfare cheques) which is exacerbating the situation, ultimately making many welfare recipient dependent on his/her cheques, and thus unlikely to look for work.
With the Mincome however, since everyone in the community had it, and it was no-strings-attached, the welfare stigma was absent, and it was viewed as discretionary cash for everyone. Instead of dividing the community between working-class and welfare recipients, it gave everyone a cushion, including the workers who could always use that extra money. The Mincome experiment vanished soon enough, and was swept under the rug, even though all these positive feedbacks were becoming apparent.
It showed me that perception is key, and it how you approach to people can vary because many's first reactions is usually tainted by the current, broken welfare system designed, which dare I say, is a major component of the archonic paradigm.
And last but not least, I am not suggesting the UBI is the end-it-all magic pill that'll make us happy.
Hell no, but it's a strong enough ladder that can get us towards where we need to go.
If you were on a ship, you'd be glad there is a rescue raft with enough space for everyone in case your ship sinks.
With a UBI, a community like this one could chip in some of the money that funds THC, or the next-door neighbour engineer interested in over-unity science; or folks who decide they want to grow organic mushrooms in the backyards and setup a local entreprise would be able to do so, with a little more leeway financially.
At worst, it's a good short-term solution. Long-term, once we get replicators in place, I don't even know if we'll need money. But I digress. 😀
So that's my two cents, and there's still so much to talk about in the details, but that's a good start. ✌️
enjoypolo wrote: That's okay, I don't necessarily want to impose my views on others.
Another point where your and hisich's philosophies greatly differ. Although I am sure he would argue to the contrary.
shamangineer wrote: Enoypolo, I don't think your arguments have gone far with hisich. Mostly because he thinks Bezos' farts smell like liberty.
I guess that means you think your Rulers' farts smell like freedom then...
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The fact that folks are seriously considering insane ideas like UBI & "there is no such thing as gender" probably indicates we are close to some kind of major societal collapse...a lot of assholes take their comfy 1st-world lives for granted...
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hisich wrote: I guess that means you think your Rulers' farts smell like freedom then...
Not that I would ever want to know because it would mean I was within spitting distance of the president, but my bet would be on rotten hamburgers with a hint of entitlement.
hisich wrote: a lot of assholes take their comfy 1st-world lives for granted...
He typed out on his computer. . .
