I want to say how much I appreciate the pages of attention that Laird Scranton gives to the 360 day calendars, and their concurrent changes to 365. If I were to pick one thing to emphasize how the historical record points to a likely rearrangement of the solar system, it would likely be this. If the cultures of the eighth century, BCE, had writing in any form, somewhere in that, they would use it to track the seasons and the annual changing of the night sky. Any farmer would not error five and a quarter days a year for long.
If I were to pick one thing in Worlds in Collision, and likewise in Earth In Upheaval, to illustrate that big things physically changed on this planet around the same time those old calendars failed, it would be the evidence that when a perceived ice age ended in Northeastern North America and Northwestern Europe, a new one suddenly settled into Northern Siberia and Alaska. The most recent ice age was not an ice age for two hemispheres, but a swap of ice-maker conditions from one to another. As the ice on my side began to melt and cut in the Niagara Falls, a lot of Siberian mammoths took their last bite of buttercups and other temperate food stocks and breathed in a fatal breath that quick-froze their lungs, stopped their hearts, left them to freeze to the bone, and to have their perfectly preserved meat to be eaten some 2700 years later.
I just found the Harpers article that the scientists of 1950 saw a few weeks before Worlds In Collision was to hit the bookstores.
From the article:
This article is an attempt, necessarily condensed and incomplete, to offer a preview of Dr. Velikovsky's findings. It is impossible to give here any idea of the extent of the material he has assembled to substantiate his argument. In the descriptions which follow, for every piece of evidence mentioned, Worlds in Collision, the first volume alone, contains scores more; and every statement in the book is supplied with numerous references.
Dr. Velikovsky's work crosses so many of the jurisdictional boundaries of learning that few experts could check it against their own competence. The main body of evidence in Worlds in Collision is historical, and the details are drawn from - among other sources - the Old Testament, the Talmud, the Egyptian papyri, the historical texts, traditions, and the legends of Rome, Greece, Babylonia, Arabia, Persia, India, Tibet, Finland, Iceland, West Africa, Siberia, China, Japan, the Pacific Islands, Mexico, and Peru. Dr. Velikovsky describes the area of his investigations as "anthropology in the broadest sense," concerning itself with "the nature of the cosmos and its history."
From the website's prelude to reprinting the article:
In the first installment we look at the initial Harper's Magazine article that really got the fire going. It was written by Eric Larrabee, a Harper's editor at the time (January 1950). It was a prelude to the release of Velikovsky's first published book, Worlds In Collision. It's a supportive article and puts a "best foot" forward for Velikovsky. But the article created a firestorm that hasn't stopped today.
BTW, yesterday was the 2704th anniversary of the last axis shift (as per Velikovsky).
"Sun and moon, stand thou still in the sky!" (Joshua 10:12)
...and de walls came a-tumblin' down...
The agreement by our ancestors, superior stargazers that they were, on a 360 day calendar is pretty interesting evidence.
By what method were the mammoth carcasses dated to 2700 years ago?
Sorry, I am over worked and can't get to Laird or V's book at this time, so I ask you.
I don't know of any dating of the Mammoths in Alaska or Siberia. I just think, after reading pretty much all of Velikovsky and several retros, that 2704 years is a pretty good educated guess, and that that axis shift that's been taken as an ice age, is the actual case, the evidence being what it is. Another interesting fact is, that when V was writing (I don't know if this has changed since then) that most of the ivory in circulation in the world was not elephant ivory, but mammoth ivory. Much of that came from the New Siberian Islands (a.k.a., the Ivory Islands) in the Arctic Ocean, where the mammoth bones and tusks were found as in wind rows along with wind rows of old growth tree trunks. It looks like in some fairly recent epoch, the Pacific Ocean poured out into Siberia and the waves swept across the land all the way to the Arctic. After the islands were picked clean, I understand that dragging the bottom for tusk was profitable.
Niagara Falls Gorge, at the present rate of erosion (when the initial melt waters would have been so much more extreme) would show an age of 3600 years, cutting the Niagara Falls Gorge. When the ice age left the Great Lakes, the mammoths found their ice age, and it continues today.
Right, so this explanation is setting aside the supremacy of radiocarbon dating, using human scale natural observations, and then gives some respect to original history. That seems reasonable.
Compared to the consensus university story (or even Hancock) it is a radical idea. I always ask myself nowadays, "How will I educate my daughter to sort through these things and maintain some level of social acceptance?" This forum should be a place to discuss such matters, but since the tech update it really seems the level of participation and intelligence has fallen off a bit 🙁 Thanks Satya for keeping it going. Hopefully it will take off again.
Gods help me! I hope to have the time and energy to show her how to do some basic E.U. experiments by the time she is 10 or 12 to help offset the stifling Dawkins/Hawking/Bill Gates world view that her smarter friends will likely have.
Hancock seems to have latched onto that 12,000 year thing with both hands in a death grip, trying to put several combined catastrophes into a single epoch. I go with 12,000 years for the final of three subsidence events for Atlantis, after Solon, Plato, and the trance readings of Edgar Cayce, who are all in agreement on that time line.
Funny enough, this is about the only place I was ever able to fault Velikovsky for leaping to a major false assumption, in suggesting that Plato's relating of Solon's date might have been exaggerated into a farther removed past, and that the sinking of the famous lost continent probably coincided with the interplays with the Comet Typhon/Proto-planet Venus, around 3,500 years ago. V. should have left that one alone. Last night on CtoCAM, the guest, Randal Carlson, went on at length about the Missoula Floods and dating them to their own (Carlson and Hancock) supposition. Again, I place the melt at -687 BCE.
Actually, the Harpers article I linked is a very good summation and introduction to Velikovsky, if one can read it without the charge held by the 1950 scientific community for protecting their professional and theoretical domains.
Here's a good indicator of the previous pole's location:
Why would an ice age cover only northeastern North America and the northwestern part of Europe? This, while the higher latitudes in Siberia and Western Alaska were then ice-free, and these latitudes in that part of the world now preserve the bodies of temperate mammals; mammoths; great bison; bears; sabertooth cats; lions. The remains of these were found, flash-frozen where they remain as such until today. The evidence seems to clearly point to an axis shift. I have to wonder why the standard ice age theory still holds, except that the so-called science is so very Euro-centric. Europe clearly had its ice age back then, but Siberia and Western Alaska are having one now!
The Canadian Shield is evidence of extreme and recent erosion. (I already mentioned the Niagara Gorge and the Missoula Floods.) The crust of the Earth was laid bare, and an arcing line of these great lakes traces the heaviest band of the previous polar glaciation's scraping and depression of the crustal rock. When the arc of the Great Lakes (U.S. and Canada) is traced with a compass on a globe, we find the pivot in or around the Davis Straight area. I take these particular bits of evidence to show that Velikovsky's date of -687 for the axis shift very likely to be the case. When taken with Velikovsky's total works and references, I see his time lines hold up quite solidly.
satyagraha wrote: Last night on CtoCAM, the guest, Randal Carlson, went on at length about the Missoula Floods and dating them to their own (Carlson and Hancock) supposition.
If anyone's interested in listining to that show... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L0FeVS3RA0
For those who can't stand listining to Noory - this time Jimmy Church was the host.
About two weeks earlier Randall was on Fade to Black, also with Jimmy Church... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI6xn2E_tOU
If someone wants more... than this episode of Joe Rogan Exp is really good to watch and listen. Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock smoke a little smoke with Joe and get deep into the topic. It's a long show... 3.5h+.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H5LCLljJho
I don't have to my copy right now but recollect he talked of Chinese calendars being adjusted - did he mention a particular date?
I also read Barbara Handclow - Awakening the Planetary Mind: Beyond the Trauma of the Past to a New Era of Creativity
Which also details the axis shift and has a few other sources like this Egyptian picture showing upright & the 23.5 degree tilt.
And the likely cause of the Venus comet passing near by.
Here's a little trip I like to take beyond Velikovsky, impossible without him, but needing recognition of the Hollow Earth.
I wrote this earlier today:
If you will; the rocky crust of this hollow planet has two contrasting major characteristic signatures. Sea floor spreading zones of mainly basaltic lavas, overlaid with usually a thin mineral layer of volcanic ash with an angular ridge and rill patterning, and older continental crusts featuring more metamorphic rock and more random folding and faulting. The difference is noticeable, and this has given rise to the notion of continental drift and plate tectonics. What is missed, in the vision of a solid planet, where the continents are imagined to be floating around, is that there is an obvious difference in the ages of the two zone types. In stead of seeing that the continents were once all in one place, stuck together, and the rest was some giant ocean, with a hollow planet model, it can be seen that the sea floor spreading zones came in later and moved the parts of the original terrestrial crusts apart by way of upwelling basaltic lavas, directly from the molten strata below.
What would have driven such a change? My guess is extraterrestrial waters, encountered in Earth's path, the origins of which are up for speculation, though, thanks to Immanuel Velikovsky's investigations and interdisciplinary vision, I believe they were due to a nova of what was once called, "Helios," and later, "Kronos," or, "Saturn," recognizing it as a failed sun/star. The name, "Helios," in our current epoch, became associated with our present sun.
When this crusty bubble of a hollow planet received the massive flood waters, much as we are told in Genesis, the waters were said to rise for 150 days, and subside for 150 days. When the Earth, while having been dislodged from its orbit of Helios/Kronos/Saturn, went into a new orbit around Helios/Sol/the sun, in the midsts of the water cloud from the hydrogen flair/nova, from the combining of hydrogen and oxygen, and the gained waters (possibly salt waters) created a globally flooded world. The hollow planet, carrying the added fluid mass, had its crusts fracture via the abruptly added centrifugal forces of rotation, and there was a sudden massive exposure of the molten stratas which were immediately quenched by the immense waters.
It's interesting to note that it has been determined by space probes that the rings of Saturn are mostly ice. Why would this gas giant have water in orbit around it?
Some of the continental masses remained submerged; Lemuria/Mu in the Southwestern Pacific, and a split in two Atlantis, in the Sargasso Sea and outside Gibraltar, where Solon and Plato told us it was. These areas do not show the sea floor spreading topographies, but rather, are buried deeply in organic and diatomaceous oozes, as in the Sargasso, or are of the very typical continental topographies, as in much of the South Pacific's South Sea Islands area.
If we take the globe and subtract the areas of the spreading zones, we come to a smaller spheroid of the older crusts of a rocky planet, mostly devoid of major oceans. The metamorphic rocky crusts were made by the slow upwelling the basaltic lavas, slowly melting their way through old rock, moving as if in those old lava lamps, mixing the minerals over extensive eons of slow motion. The difference between such metamorphic crusts and the raw basalts of the sea beds, or those of the Columbia Plateau (a unique formation on Earth where the magma sheets erupted above the level of the seas and were not hydraulically quenched), is hard to miss. One type happened extremely slowly, and the other, extremely quickly, not to mention, quite recently, in geological terms.
So, there you have something to ponder for a bit. We can consider that the solid planet might have long been its present size, and Gondwanaland somehow broke up and quietly floated around on smooth sea floors (which are far from smooth), or, that this hollow planet took on so much added mass in the form of water that its crusts fractured under the stresses and newer basaltic crusts formed in the expansion, forcing the old continental masses apart and a lowering of temporary peak sea levels in the process. Another thing to think about, if there has, in fact, been a flood that over-topped the mountains, as told in so many traditions around the world, on a solid Earth, the waters would still be up there and we'd be breathing with gills. Only on a hollow planet could the waters recede, via expansion of the sphere, unless gravity failed and the waters left (but then, everything else would have gone along too).
With certain spreading signatures, such as the where the Galapagos Rise and Fracture Zone seems to have shifted the structure of an older East Pacific Rise in later epochs, it seems apparent that there have been subsequent spreading epochs of lesser magnitudes than that of the Saturn nova, or Noah, Flooding. These that happened later were probably due to crustal movements in association with the Venus and Mars encounters that figure so prominently in Worlds In Collision. There is much evidence of a sudden sea level drop of 50 feet which I date to roughly 3500 years ago, associated with the disappearance of the Red Paint People of the North Atlantic coasts from North America, all the way around to the Portuguese coast (when all the waters "turned to blood").
Wow. Far out. And pretty plausible.
