DEMOCRACY (the God that failed)

So what's your solution for making fair decisions to govern society? If you are about to say libertarian utopia, it's been tried to horrible results.

shamangineer wrote: So what's your solution for making fair decisions to govern society? If you are about to say libertarian utopia, it's been tried to horrible results.

Well, when America was heavily libertarian (specifically from the end of the Civil War/1865 to right before WWI/1913), we saw possibly the greatest improvement in human living standards/progress EVER.

I'm not sure how opposing a Ruler-Ruled system makes me a "Utopianist". I don't know why people ALWAYS resort to this BS.

Speaking of "utopianism" aren't YOU the one who supports a UBI where no one has to work if they don't want to?

I will ask you to consider the fact that you spent some of your most formative years being indoctrinated in schools run by your rulers for the express purpose of turning you into an obedient & controllable serf/slave. The worldview you have is the one given to you by your rulers.

Even if one believes in democracy, how insane is it that 18 y.o.'s are allowed to vote? Or people who collect welfare or a govt. paycheck (conflict-of-interest--HELLO!)? People w/sub-100 IQs or mental deficiencies (for Christ's sake, a neighbor of mine is 25 but is autistic w/the mentality of a 9 y.o. and HE VOTES)? People who pay few taxes have their vote weighted the same as those who pay vastly more?

I agree with you, it would not be a utopia.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bn53b3/atlas-mugged-922-v21n10

Say the project had been country-wide how do you take care of water rights in a libertarian society?

I expect this experiment to end similarly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoM0U8Sa2G0

shamangineer wrote: I agree with you, it would not be a utopia.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bn53b3/atlas-mugged-922-v21n10

Say the project had been country-wide how do you take care of water rights in a libertarian society?

Who will pick the cotton if we free the negro slaves...?

The difference between us is that you think like a central-planner (thanks to your forced govt.-school indoctrination)...I don't, therefore I'm not arrogant enough to imagine that I have all the answers.

Now, explain to me--in your Authoritarian Society of top-down control--how do you prevent corruption, bad decisions on the part of the Rulers, & psychopaths/sociopaths from gaining power...?

shamangineer wrote: I expect this experiment to end similarly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoM0U8Sa2G0

And I expect communism/socialism to end like it always does (see USSR, East Bloc, Cuba, Venezuela, Red China, Communist Cambodia, etc.).

Once again, if communism/socialism is so great, I would expect people like you to get together w/like-minded people (there are plenty of rich Leftists like Toe Rogan too) & implement it...the fact that you don't speaks volumes.

You should really listen to my Fascism episode on THSC to get a real perspective on my thoughts regarding authoritarianism if you actually give a shit about ending authoritarianism rather than just hearing yourself speak. You are completely misrepresenting my views as espousing fascism and authoritarianism. I specifically spoke out against the kind of centrally-planned authoritarian structures you are claiming I support in favor of decentralized democratic structures both in the workplace and government.

Here is a link:
https://www.thehighersidechatsplus.com/shamangineer-fascism-the-history-the-psychology-the-re-emergence/

Still waiting for anything resembling an answer on water rights in a Liberterian society. . .

shamangineer wrote: Still waiting for anything resembling an answer on water rights in a Liberterian society. . .

Imagine, for a second, that we are living in the American South in 1858...I'm pro-slavery (which is still the norm for most of human history) and you're anti-slavery. Now, convince me that slavery should be abolished...tell me who will pick the cotton if the negro slavers are freed...?

shamangineer wrote: You should really listen to my Fascism episode on THSC to get a real perspective on my thoughts regarding authoritarianism if you actually give a shit about ending authoritarianism rather than just hearing yourself speak. You are completely misrepresenting my views as espousing fascism and authoritarianism. I specifically spoke out against the kind of centrally-planned authoritarian structures you are claiming I support in favor of decentralized democratic structures both in the workplace and government.

Here is a link:
https://www.thehighersidechatsplus.com/shamangineer-fascism-the-history-the-psychology-the-re-emergence/

Thanks, I'll listen to it. I'm generally fine w/any kind of human arrangements as long as they're voluntary. IMO, fascism (essentially the merging of economy & state, a permutation of communism) is the model most modern govts. have adopted for some time now.

Fascist symbology at Lincoln Memorial, inside Congress, and on U.S. coinage:

hisich wrote: Imagine, for a second, that we are living in the American South in 1858...I'm pro-slavery (which is still the norm for most of human history) and you're anti-slavery. Now, convince me that slavery should be abolished...tell me who will pick the cotton if the negro slavers are freed...?

Hows about you just say where you are going with this.

shamangineer wrote: Hows about you just say where you are going with this.

I think you know...

I know about the fascia included in American symbology and the meaning, and I would agree we are in a fascist arrangement right now, but it is not due to democracy itself. It is due to democracy being undermined and eroded by authoritarian structures (large private enterprises and their associated lobbyists) through a variety of payoff schemes to provide socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.