May It Bless All Involved

Damn son, that’s a tough pill to swallow.
Sorry for your loss, FC.

Sorry to hear that. I think the blessings will help. If you aren't going down a specific spiritual path (I don't blame you) and are cobbling together spells there is a bit of a potential for it to have unintended consequences. In order to have more controlled outcomes you should steep yourself in whatever tradition is being borrowed from in order to relate it to your personal metaphysics. Additionally, the astrology at the time has a large impact on the outcome and should be considered by spellcasters.

enjoypolo wrote: Damn son, that’s a tough pill to swallow.
Sorry for your loss, FC.

No, dude, thank you, but I got off light. She was not a cool person, I hadn't talked to her in years, and she was mostly dead anyways. You can't ask for a gentler "low ball" than that. I got off easy. I can only imagine what it would have been like if it was somebody I loved dear. I don't think I believe I killed her. Mostly. Not anymore.

shamangineer wrote: Sorry to hear that. I think the blessings will help. If you aren't going down a specific spiritual path (I don't blame you) and are cobbling together spells there is a bit of a potential for it to have unintended consequences. In order to have more controlled outcomes you should steep yourself in whatever tradition is being borrowed from in order to relate it to your personal metaphysics. Additionally, the astrology at the time has a large impact on the outcome and should be considered by spellcasters.

I think the blessings will help.

Sweeeeeeet.

you should steep yourself in whatever tradition is being borrowed from in order to relate it to your personal metaphysics.

See, this is my problem. Those traditions use symbols and stories that are going to influence what my magic becomes. I don't know these people. I haven't met a tradition I've liked yet. They've junkied on this Schtum bullshittery. Silence is no longer golden. All silence does is keep basic tools of self-mastery out of the hands of the masses. They're keeping it for themselves. Or they're charging for it. And most of it is ritual. Some people like ritual- that ain't me.

You're absolutely right. Use these traditions as a guide..An understanding of not so much the things they do, but why they do them. Absolutely. Good call.

Additionally, the astrology at the time has a large impact on the outcome and should be considered by spellcasters.

That is a really brilliant point, man. I have engaged in my magic practice astrology-blind. I didn't need it. However, I did run a money spell with other people and the dude who hit the jackpot had a crazy favorable reading during the time in question. Like Jupiter in the Second? I think? For two months, 50 grand dumped into this guy's lap- with 10 grand recurring yearly for a long time.

This guy also had a lot of "irons in the fire." So did the other guy who did really well. They both had many and varied routes for money to flow to them. One could argue that these irons where fulfilling the "action" step of manifesting through the Tree of Life. Probably. I couldn't tell ya, I don't use that, either.

What I can say is that for a money spell, I highly recommend many and varied paths for money to flow to you - lotsa irons in the fire - and favorable astrology.

This reminds me about the William Bengston healing protocol, where visualization is used to manifest healing with certain intentions. If I remember well, there are few things you should not do though, such as trying to heal someone without their permission.

Another one that has marked me was, don’t ask for something you already have. For instance, if I’m healthy, but I ask for good health, what will happen is I will get sick, in ordee to have good health again (hopefully). Which is why, once a wish has manifested, it needs to be crossed off.

Also, things like “I want to be happy” are vague, empty-conditionings. Instead he suggests imagining what does a happy life look like, and focus on that image (however selfish it may seem).

Take it as you may, I wish he’d come back again. It was a brilliant episode, and I must have his CDs somewhere in my drive.

fifthcolumn wrote:
you should steep yourself in whatever tradition is being borrowed from in order to relate it to your personal metaphysics.

See, this is my problem. Those traditions use symbols and stories that are going to influence what my magic becomes. I don't know these people. I haven't met a tradition I've liked yet. They've junkied on this Schtum bullshittery. Silence is no longer golden. All silence does is keep basic tools of self-mastery out of the hands of the masses. They're keeping it for themselves. Or they're charging for it. And most of it is ritual. Some people like ritual- that ain't me.

You're absolutely right. Use these traditions as a guide..An understanding of not so much the things they do, but why they do them. Absolutely. Good call.

The Mayans had one of the most sophisticated calendars in the ancient world, and yet they thought sunspots were caused by ants on the surface. I don't have to believe sunspots are caused by ants to see the value of the calendar. But with spells and intent, it is important to understand how the spells used symbols based on the cultural understanding of those who formulated the spells. A Mayan spell using ants as an ingredient while calling on the sun for instance. Your symbolic understanding of ants would differ without the original context in mind.

enjoypolo wrote: This reminds me about the William Bengston healing protocol, where visualization is used to manifest healing with certain intentions. If I remember well, there are few things you should not do though, such as trying to heal someone without their permission.

Another one that has marked me was, don’t ask for something you already have. For instance, if I’m healthy, but I ask for good health, what will happen is I will get sick, in ordee to have good health again (hopefully). Which is why, once a wish has manifested, it needs to be crossed off.

Also, things like “I want to be happy” are vague, empty-conditionings. Instead he suggests imagining what does a happy life look like, and focus on that image (however selfish it may seem).

Take it as you may, I wish he’d come back again. It was a brilliant episode, and I must have his CDs somewhere in my drive.

there are few things you should not do though, such as trying to heal someone without their permission.

Yeah, I think this is a wise rule to go by. Rani made an excellent point about sickness manifesting for those who need some time off work. The last thing I wanna do is cheat a guy out of his R&R. Also, I think sickness may at times lead to growth. Don't wanna be stalling other people's journey.

don’t ask for something you already have

This is maybe the second or third time I've heard this in regard to magic. It sounds wise.

Also, things like “I want to be happy” are vague, empty-conditionings. Instead he suggests imagining what does a happy life look like, and focus on that image (however selfish it may seem).

This is a really important point. I don't want anything in my magic. I already have it. How does that make me feel? What are the sights, sounds, flavors, and smells that accompany already having it. And how many times a day can I play them back for my subconscious. That's how I do it, mostly.

But I also use war. If I feel like I'm coming down with the flu and I got a vacation flight the next morning, the elite bio-specwar operators in my bloodstream suit up. Wake up every 45 minutes, spewing fluids ass to jugular. Every waking second spent watching my own Hicks, Hudson, Vasquez, and Drake kick ass and take names. Conjuring cinematic vignettes featuring the power of my soldiers as they take ground against the enemy. 6 o'clock the next morning, I'm annoying the agents at a TSA checkpoint. Right were I should be.

Prayer is different, as well. The most impressive shit I've done was accomplished through prayer. That is straight up acknowledging a need and asking for a remedy to it. There's a humility to it in that if you can come from a genuine place of Please- a place of lack and an honest appeal for help; AND come from a place of NOT FOR ME. FOR HIM. Because it would make his life better? If you can come from that genuine place of feeling, whatever is answering those prayers can move mountains. Part seas. Turn night into day. Seen it happen.

shamangineer wrote: The Mayans had one of the most sophisticated calendars in the ancient world, and yet they thought sunspots were caused by ants on the surface. I don't have to believe sunspots are caused by ants to see the value of the calendar. But with spells and intent, it is important to understand how the spells used symbols based on the cultural understanding of those who formulated the spells. A Mayan spell using ants as an ingredient while calling on the sun for instance. Your symbolic understanding of ants would differ without the original context in mind.

I don't have to believe sunspots are caused by ants to see the value of the calendar.

Precisely. The concept of "Initiation" should be studied in many traditions. How did these fuckers weed out the undesirables? What did they feel were the traits needed to contribute to their work? How do you design processes that weed out those without those traits? I am self-initiated, baby. And I highly recommend it. But having some other models to get an idea of your own could be extremely useful.

Self initiation feels a lot more like giving up fights. Being the better man. Letting people win and smiling about it. Healing yourself, the people around you and cleaning the general airspace. To me, anyway, more than quests, robed ceremonies, and remembered jargon.

based on the cultural understanding of those who formulated the spells.

Agreed. That is important and deep. That is why self-init is king. I have bypassed any loss in translation of intent. If I am appealing to my own subconscious, then I have no need for recipes and archetypes that somebody else decided was good for this sort of thing. I am a free agent. Not contributing to energies and egregores that I don't know dick about. Haven't made any blood oaths to keep schtum. Energetically more pristine, maybe? The only archetypes I gotta understand are my own.

You goddamn deep thinkers'll kill us in the end. I gotta get ten knuckle draggers across the finish line. I can't teach em hokey religions and ancient weapons. I'm looking for the easy way. How do I get ten grunts over this wall? They have an archetype for fight. Not too many good ones for giving up the fight and cleaning your airspace. The most very and basic spreading of love, damn your eyes!

You make excellent points, man. Am I seeing something wrong?

fifthcolumn wrote: You goddamn deep thinkers'll kill us in the end. I gotta get ten knuckle draggers across the finish line. I can't teach em hokey religions and ancient weapons. I'm looking for the easy way. How do I get ten grunts over this wall? They have an archetype for fight. Not too many good ones for giving up the fight and cleaning your airspace. The most very and basic spreading of love, damn your eyes!

You make excellent points, man. Am I seeing something wrong?

It's like a recipe. Substitutions of ingredients, altering methods, ect can all have wonderful varied effects. They can also cause mayhem with the outcome if the effect of the substitution is misunderstood. The most common mistake in cooking would be to substitute an ingredient to get a different flavor while neglecting to account for the change in consistency.

I am just saying if you are going to cook a 17th century recipe you should know what they meant by a smidgen and half a dozen other colloquialisms to get the desired outcome and probably learn a few new cooking methods, if for no other reason than to adapt them to modern appliances. If you want to modify it, sure, but know the original intent first, then modify and understand the effects of those changes. While you will likely not cook in cast iron over a bed of coals to make that 17th century stew, you should understand how to correctly interpret the instructions for cooking times and temperatures before simmering on the home range even if given in terms of knuckles from a "goode" flame and turns of a hourglass. If you are going to cook a 17th century recipe be sure to have at least 4 sticks of butter or a heap of lard on hand.

I am not sure what you are using as your guide to provide formulation for your magical recipes, but whatever that source or sources is/are you should understand it's perspective, methods, and goals before appropriating. If you are simply a spontaneous master mage and can formulate spells from the ether and have exacting mental discipline and focus, I am assuming a bit much in my argument. But if not, take heed. I am just sharing my understanding of some of the pitfalls associated with making your own spiritual understanding outside of various mythologies while drawing upon them for actionable source material. If you are using herbal magic such things are not always factors. I would tend to view this as a safe starting point for an aspiring mage eschewing traditional initiation paths as long as no substitutions are made without understanding the energetic effects of the substitution. Scheduling these efforts to maximize effect astrologically will increase intended outcome as well.

You are correct that overthinking is not desirable in magical execution, but a great deal of thought should go into magical formulation and timing. If we live in a simulation and you are mucking about in the source code without understanding the effects of the commands you are executing then you'll get some glitches.

shamangineer wrote: It's like a recipe. Substitutions of ingredients, altering methods, ect can all have wonderful varied effects. They can also cause mayhem with the outcome if the effect of the substitution is misunderstood. The most common mistake in cooking would be to substitute an ingredient to get a different flavor while neglecting to account for the change in consistency.

I am just saying if you are going to cook a 17th century recipe you should know what they meant by a smidgen and half a dozen other colloquialisms to get the desired outcome and probably learn a few new cooking methods, if for no other reason than to adapt them to modern appliances. If you want to modify it, sure, but know the original intent first, then modify and understand the effects of those changes. While you will likely not cook in cast iron over a bed of coals to make that 17th century stew, you should understand how to correctly interpret the instructions for cooking times and temperatures before simmering on the home range even if given in terms of knuckles from a "goode" flame and turns of a hourglass. If you are going to cook a 17th century recipe be sure to have at least 4 sticks of butter or a heap of lard on hand.

I am not sure what you are using as your guide to provide formulation for your magical recipes, but whatever that source or sources is/are you should understand it's perspective, methods, and goals before appropriating. If you are simply a spontaneous master mage and can formulate spells from the ether and have exacting mental discipline and focus, I am assuming a bit much in my argument. But if not, take heed. I am just sharing my understanding of some of the pitfalls associated with making your own spiritual understanding outside of various mythologies while drawing upon them for actionable source material. If you are using herbal magic such things are not always factors. I would tend to view this as a safe starting point for an aspiring mage eschewing traditional initiation paths as long as no substitutions are made without understanding the energetic effects of the substitution. Scheduling these efforts to maximize effect astrologically will increase intended outcome as well.

You are correct that overthinking is not desirable in magical execution, but a great deal of thought should go into magical formulation and timing. If we live in a simulation and you are mucking about in the source code without understanding the effects of the commands you are executing then you'll get some glitches.

Oh. Jeez, man. You are not gonna like me.

So, like, I was going through this whole thing seeing if I could dumb it down for the masses. Like yogis would speak with derision about my methods as "fast-food american" ascension. Develop a style that anybody could adapt to themselves without having to find fucking Yoda. Or spend hours in study and focus. Don't judge me, man- that was my path.

Your point about recipe is well met. I cook with my own ingredients. Little bit of Hudson and Hicks over here, little buddy mountain climbing over there. Lotta war. If I am appealing to my own subconscious, why would I want to translate that appeal through mayan ants on the sun?

My magical recipes are like cool pictures with feelings attached to em. Maybe a story and some music. Return to the feeling and pictures as many times per day as possible for 10 second daydreams. Do this for as long as I can keep it up. I don't "cast" a lot, but this gets me results.

If we live in a simulation, then this is part of the simulation. When I break the matrix, I don't break the simulation. The simulation continues as if the devs planned it that way. I can achieve repeatable results, using no recipes other than my own. It does not feel glitchy to me.

We both know that everybody is casting all the time. I find it unjust to keep the tools of refining that behind immense intellectual paywalls.

Hello ol' magic pal.

It seems like your treding a new path, a bit like Peter Carroll & his stripped down chaos magic. Remove the unecessary flamboyant rituals and get to what works.

On reflection I've had magical results after some visualisation, wishing, intention, prayer etc all the while I had no idea of magical practice. But I wasn't summoning non-material entities & demanding servitude.

However you get your results keeping some sort of record or journal so you can repeat successes is not a bad idea.

Some rituals, precautions or whatever you want to call it, is like wearing protective eyewear & gloves if your messing around with corrosives.

I look forward to reading about your successful new methods.

Be safe.

nickzeptepi wrote: Hello ol' magic pal.

It seems like your treding a new path, a bit like Peter Carroll & his stripped down chaos magic. Remove the unecessary flamboyant rituals and get to what works.

On reflection I've had magical results after some visualisation, wishing, intention, prayer etc all the while I had no idea of magical practice. But I wasn't summoning non-material entities & demanding servitude.

However you get your results keeping some sort of record or journal so you can repeat successes is not a bad idea.

Some rituals, precautions or whatever you want to call it, is like wearing protective eyewear & gloves if your messing around with corrosives.

I look forward to reading about your successful new methods.

Be safe.

Nick, brother, your response here was expertly cast. I just had the best laugh of my week.

I am constantly listening to these magicians on THC and going "Dude... stop sounding so arrogant. You're scaring off the squares, man... Oh man, don't say that to this crowd."

And I'm doing the same thing.

I just walked in here and shat all over people's love and fear axiom and now I'm copping a squat on ceremonial magic.

Nick's like "Uh... Can we put some tarps down? Some of us are using these things."

Mate I get you and you rock! Thank you for allowing me to catch a glimpse of myself through your eyes. Best laugh of my week. This is my first foray into forums and I beg all your forgiveness for my naive brashness. I do not seek to alienate and I still do, sometimes. I will get better.

There is an argument to be made for egregores. By using the symbols and archetypes of a "school," one attaches to the energy of that school, boosting power, efficacy, ease. I cannot argue against this.

I think it could well be dangerous to start playing the game my way in the middle of ceremonial spellcasting. I wouldn't imagine them mixing well at all. Even in my model, a subconscious mind that believes that delicate measurements and proper procedures are necessary, will cause bad things to occur when they are not adhered to.

The argument is one of models. If I am applying to something else, outside of me, for manifestation; or if I am applying to myself- my own subconscious. If the only one I need to get on board is my own subconscious, then I know what he likes and understands. I know the themes and music that will achieve the desired result.

In fact, I am the only one who ever lived who knows the best way to speak to my own subconscious.

Let me give a really bad example for demo purposes:

You're casting a spell and you want to add "raw power." Like an ingredient. Magnify the effect. Your book tells you to call on Zeus. I gotta know who he is, run a goddamn background check, know all his correspondences- that somebody else made up. It's a lot of work if you're gonna do it right.

When I think of raw power, I think of a liquid metal terminator driving a truck. When Rani thinks of raw power, she thinks of a giant earth mother goddess laughing at the impotent evil toiling at her feet. We all got our own story. We don't need one from somebody else.

And I'm selling the sizzle. Hundreds of billions of dollars spent on ads to "sell the sizzle" to your subconscious because it doesn't work? Liquid metal terminator driving a truck sizzles to me. Gaian Queen Stalgruten sizzles to Rani. Old man in a dress, on a mountain, throwing lightning? My autistic younger brother don't play that game with much fervor. And it would take me forever to teach him to do it well.

He knows exactly what I mean when I say "Drake, we are leaving!" and "That which threatens to poison and destroy my brothers." That birthday. My mom's death. That time I beat that dude on open field. Why don't I use that shit on him? I know a lot of it is still their archetypes (It's all theirs) but I appropriate them at my will based on the feeling they give me. If I'm feeling it, my subconscious is paying close attention.

In order to play the game my way, you have to dare to believe that you matter more than you ever thought you did. That your own story matters. That maybe something could make a game for billions of users- and still personalize the pathway to ascension in it for each individual player.

Know Thyself.

fifthcolumn wrote: This is my first foray into forums and I beg all your forgiveness for my naive brashness. I do not seek to alienate and I still do, sometimes. I will get better.

Some people talk in black and white, some talk in colour - it appears you might be talking in ultra-violet or infra-red. 😉

fifthcolumn wrote: call on Zeus

This usual means to call upon a archotic entity - a planetary archon - not your indivdual raw power. If the archons had cell phones you'd have to dial the right number or you just get a sex chat line.
Tapping your raw subconscious power is a bit different. Can you project words from your will into the mouths of others for them to speak them?

Have you held a planetary archon in your subconscious and felt your physiology change as the archon communicates with you?

Have you manifest energetic beings visibly in the same room as you?

When I was in middle school - i must have been 10 or 11 or 12 most of us was just before puberty. a new girl turned up called Kirsty Boardman she had developed into a young woman and looked so hot to alll the boys, everyone fancied her. I recall making a styalised image out of her inituals, i now realise it was a sigil and low and behold a few days later as we were lining up for the new maths class a line of boys and a line of girls, we were told you will sit boy girl boy girl and be like this for the rest of the year. Kirsty quickly realised she would be sat next to the obnoxious ginger kid so she pushed her friend, swaped places with her in line and I ended up sitting next to her all year and became quite good frineds with her and her hot mates!

That's magic. hahaha.

fifthcolumn wrote: it is still their archetypes (It's all theirs) but I appropriate them at my will based on the feeling they give me.

,
Yes I agree, you might be developing a new communication method, but you have to make sure the external power you are calling on will recognise your call. otherwise your pissing into the wind.

If you're summoning a power within you because you are hard wired into that collective archetypal subconscious field - thats different and is subjective to you and how you want to do it. the principle of being able to repeat it consistantly is what will make the significant difference.

what do you want to achieve? is it inline with the larger creative force? theres no point swimming against the current. then its trial and error with goggles, gloves, and safety boots.

nickzeptepi wrote: Some people talk in black and white, some talk in colour - it appears you might be talking in ultra-violet or infra-red. 😉

This usual means to call upon a archotic entity - a planetary archon - not your indivdual raw power. If the archons had cell phones you'd have to dial the right number or you just get a sex chat line.
Tapping your raw subconscious power is a bit different. Can you project words from your will into the mouths of others for them to speak them?

Have you held a planetary archon in your subconscious and felt your physiology change as the archon communicates with you?

Have you manifest energetic beings visibly in the same room as you?

When I was in middle school - i must have been 10 or 11 or 12 most of us was just before puberty. a new girl turned up called Kirsty Boardman she had developed into a young woman and looked so hot to alll the boys, everyone fancied her. I recall making a styalised image out of her inituals, i now realise it was a sigil and low and behold a few days later as we were lining up for the new maths class a line of boys and a line of girls, we were told you will sit boy girl boy girl and be like this for the rest of the year. Kirsty quickly realised she would be sat next to the obnoxious ginger kid so she pushed her friend, swaped places with her in line and I ended up sitting next to her all year and became quite good frineds with her and her hot mates!

That's magic. hahaha.

,
Yes I agree, you might be developing a new communication method, but you have to make sure the external power you are calling on will recognise your call. otherwise your pissing into the wind.

If you're summoning a power within you because you are hard wired into that collective archetypal subconscious field - thats different and is subjective to you and how you want to do it. the principle of being able to repeat it consistantly is what will make the significant difference.

what do you want to achieve? is it inline with the larger creative force? theres no point swimming against the current. then its trial and error with goggles, gloves, and safety boots.

This usual means to call upon a archotic entity - a planetary archon - not your indivdual raw power.

Right. I don't know this guy. And most of em are mobbed up.

Tapping your raw subconscious power is a bit different. Can you project words from your will into the mouths of others for them to speak them?

Never tried.

Have you held a planetary archon in your subconscious and felt your physiology change as the archon communicates with you?

No, dude, that sounds horrible.

Have you manifest energetic beings visibly in the same room as you?

Gotta hit you with a solid Maybe on that.

you have to make sure the external power you are calling on will recognise your call.

No external power necessary. Just my own subconscious.

summoning a power within you because you are hard wired into that collective archetypal subconscious field

I don't know if I'd even call it that. It feels more like an appeal to my individual subconscious mind than accessing a collective. I could be wrong, but it feels more personal than that to me.

what do you want to achieve?

Blessings, baby.