shamangineer wrote: If you think that sunspots are caused by ants you may observe and record many aspects of the cosmos, but never correctly attribute the correct cause of space weather. If you want to know why sunspots correlate with something you may well begin speculating on the mood of the ants being affected or what the ants did to cause such an effect. Neither of these ideas will help in determining the correct mechanism of cause and effect.
Studying NDE experiences helped guide me to making some determinations of what God is. These experiences are primarily focused on a widely expanded perspective so vast that it cannot be retained upon returning to the body, especially when in communion with God. That degree of interconnectedness brings it's own awareness. While a materialist view starts at the atom and works up to energy and information a spiritualist view typically works in reverse. Is God a conglomeration of smaller sources or a single source differentiated into smaller aspects?
I suppose it is just a matter of perspective and how deep into the chain of custody you dig. Heurtistics can yield decent results most of the time but fail horribly when information outside of the model is presented. So long as the risk of failure and cost of failure are low it makes sense to use them when resources are limited. But they are not as as accurate as more rigorous and intensive approaches which are based on a great deal more data and have better correlation to reality.
You can hunt mice in your kitchen with a shotgun, based on the heuristic methodology that shoguns will kill just about anything. You could also try to hunt a whale with a shotgun, but it's awful bloody business. Hunting just about anything in between those extremes a shotgun will work, but is it the best implement for hunting in any circumstance? Not at all, especially given the amount of meat that must be discarded due to lead contamination. Believing your subconscious is God is probably quite a bit lower than any scenario involving wild animals and shotguns on the risk scale given what most people believe God is. But it might end up limiting your perspective.
Neither of these ideas will help in determining the correct mechanism of cause and effect.
Yeah, man, I'm not so much concerned with absolute truths about the mechanisms of cause and effect. I figure that's why they designed dudes like you. The hyper-intelligent, attention to detail payers. I don't have that in me. Most of us out here are just grunts, man. We don't qualify for Q Section. I'm just trying to get usable tools out to the grunts in the field.
I think the "My subconscious mind is God" theory is elegant and poetic. AND NEITHER YOU OR I CAN POINT OUT ANY FLAWS IN THE MOTHERFUCKER. That means something to me. I mean, any belief runs the risk of being over-focused on to the point of "limiting your perspective."
I can teach a grunt to use a shotgun in a half an hour and he can be hunting rabbits and killing wolves at his gate tonight. It's also an ascension tool. Ascension and the study of magic become about the same thing. Me. It's kinda two-birdsy that way. It's also the survival tool. No gear. Naked and Afraid or Mad Max conditions magic.
When we need to nuke a whale, we call Q Section. But the shotgun has done me right nice. Useful.
You are far more powerful than they will ever tell you.
fifthcolumn wrote: I think the "My subconscious mind is God" theory is elegant and poetic. AND NEITHER YOU OR I CAN POINT OUT ANY FLAWS IN THE MOTHERFUCKER. That means something to me. I mean, any belief runs the risk of being over-focused on to the point of "limiting your perspective."
I have pointed out flaws, but frankly you seem a bit fixated on the idea. If you want to understand my perspective on the mind I suggest listening to the mind episode I did, I'll leave it at that.
shamangineer wrote: I have pointed out flaws, but frankly you seem a bit fixated on the idea. If you want to understand my perspective on the mind I suggest listening to the mind episode I did, I'll leave it at that.
Sorry, dude. Didn't mean to sound flippant.
What I took from your post- as far as flaws:
1) It might be wrong. Agreed. I think all belief structures run this risk.
2) It seems to disagree with your notions of God derived from your NDE research. Although I don't see how. If "unity consciousness" is God, then I would ask if those NDE'ers felt like they were in a position to cause hurricanes upon the earth. Is this "unity consciousness" that which intervenes in human affairs? Or is it home base, outside the game, detached and uninterfering? Which, in my view, would make our individual subconscious minds the only Gods worth applying to for manifestation.
3) I don't know what you have against Heuristics. I think they're a useful tool when "information outside the model is presented." I'm not looking for absolute truth. I'm looking to get the job done. If I come to new information that proves tangible drawbacks to the models I use, I can change my belief structure to account for it. Wouldn't be the first time.
4) It might limit my perspective. Agreed. I think all belief structures run this risk.
If I've missed something, please let me know.
Hey man, when I say AND NEITHER YOU OR I CAN POINT OUT ANY FLAWS IN THE MOTHERFUCKER. it is not a statement of gloating. I was trying to write an impressive way of showing how CRAZY it is that SHAMANGINEER can't see through this model! Because I'm with him! Most of me believes, like he does, that God is outside of him. But the fact that neither he or I can find tangible flaws, specific to that model- blows me away!
When I say AND NEITHER YOU OR I CAN POINT OUT ANY FLAWS IN THE MOTHERFUCKER. it is a statement of respect for your mind. If I think that somebody as smart as you can only say "It might be wrong and it might limit your perspective," then that is a huge win for the "Subconscious Mind As God" model! I would have thought a guy like you might be able to shatter it into a million pieces at first glance. Didn't happen. The model is kinda sturdy...
RETARDEDLY STURDY. Honestly, bro, it bothers me how sturdy it is. It bothers me how much you and I want to fight against it. All the while, these mantras from hokey religions hang in the air around me. "God is within you." "Go within." "The Kingdom of Heaven lies within."
You are far more powerful than they will ever tell you.
I am contending that the unconscious mind is the key and a connection to God, but is not necessarily God itself. I have outlined the connections and chain of custody of information between the conscious, subconscious, and unconscious minds in the mind episode and so don't really want to spend the time to re-hash it all here. I just want to make it clear why I contend that the subconscious as God is not durable in terms of self-knowledge. If that belief helps you to accomplish something, feel free to use that shorthand, but I am absolutely saying that there is more that that model does not acknowledge which is why in my opinion it is a form of heuristic thinking that can have certain benefits, but which is limited by what goes unacknowledged.
Some sources that would tend to be in alignment with this contention:
Ingo Swann - specifically outlining the role of the unconscious in his book Natural ESP.
Dr. Stuart Hamerhoff - his orch-or model delves below the thresholds of both conscious and subconscious thought and discusses quantum cellular interactions with the cells microtubules.
The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab's model of consciousness is roughly analogous to my model and the others presented.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3ivOXuFfUA
The Fredric W.H Meyer model is also in alignment with this contention. The book Irreducible Mind mentioned in this talk is based on quite a bit of research but uses Meyers' model as the basis. Irreducible Mind not an easy read, but works as a good reference for various phenomena and figuring out how it relates to such a model.
This video should give some good insight into the role and seat of the subconscious aspect of the mind. While one half of your brain is not God, I believe it does play a critical role in one's connection to God through the unconscious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU
One way to think about this is the following analogy: If ego is the man on the elephant and the elephant is the subconscious, the ground on which the elephant treads is the unconscious. God is all of them at once as well as the air they breathe, the sweat that drips from their pores, and the spark within them.
the backwardworow of the dreoid.. mercury.
the way is thenot so way in the down perfect non perfect drowning thousands... lean to the fate truth thue in the droqning
no one has answer the ya ya ay ya death daeath. never heard a man speak like this man before. 3787877348787738787377898439049
shamangineer wrote: I am contending that the unconscious mind is the key and a connection to God, but is not necessarily God itself. I have outlined the connections and chain of custody of information between the conscious, subconscious, and unconscious minds in the mind episode and so don't really want to spend the time to re-hash it all here. I just want to make it clear why I contend that the subconscious as God is not durable in terms of self-knowledge. If that belief helps you to accomplish something, feel free to use that shorthand, but I am absolutely saying that there is more that that model does not acknowledge which is why in my opinion it is a form of heuristic thinking that can have certain benefits, but which is limited by what goes unacknowledged.
Some sources that would tend to be in alignment with this contention:
Ingo Swann - specifically outlining the role of the unconscious in his book Natural ESP.
Dr. Stuart Hamerhoff - his orch-or model delves below the thresholds of both conscious and subconscious thought and discusses quantum cellular interactions with the cells microtubules.
The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab's model of consciousness is roughly analogous to my model and the others presented.
The fact that Ingo Swann, Stuart Hamerhoff, and PEAR use different models, does carry weight with me. However, it does not prove the "Subconscious Mind As God" model wrong.
I am absolutely saying that there is more that that model does not acknowledge
What does the "Subconscious Mind As God" model not acknowledge? (Besides an external, "above all" Source)
You are far more powerful than they will ever tell you.
shamangineer wrote: and chain of custody of information between the conscious, subconscious, and unconscious minds in the mind episode and so don't really want to spend the time to re-hash it all here.
Aaaaahhhh!!!
I get it! Boy, you don't hafta tell me 6 times!
Am I correct in assuming that you feel that the distinctions between subconscious and unconscious are useful? My problem is I never saw any use in that distinction. I agree that it is fascinating- and may be more accurate than just calling it all Subconscious. But as much as I've heard about models using sub / unconscious, I have not been able to tease out any usefulness. Not yet.
Can you point me to an aspect of ascension or magic in which employing this distinction yields fruit? Or makes things easier?
You are far more powerful than they will ever tell you.
fifthcolumn wrote: Aaaaahhhh!!!
I get it! Boy, you don't hafta tell me 6 times!
Am I correct in assuming that you feel that the distinctions between subconscious and unconscious are useful? My problem is I never saw any use in that distinction. I agree that it is fascinating- and may be more accurate than just calling it all Subconscious. But as much as I've heard about models using sub / unconscious, I have not been able to tease out any usefulness. Not yet.
Can you point me to an aspect of ascension or magic in which employing this distinction yields fruit? Or makes things easier?
I have been learning such things to understand the forces that cause such things to manifest, and the information transforms that occur across different biological and dimensional boundaries. Quantum or temporally resonant information is not the same as the relational transformations that occurs in parallel processes for instance. If you are using techniques that have been tested by a tradition having sucess with making a ripple at the nonlocal level is typically engrained within the symbology of that practice. If you are developing your own techniques understanding the forces involved in making that transition of information sucessful is more important.
that reminds me im a grunt or whatever. grunt star seed in a animal human state to be exact heh
shamangineer wrote: I have been learning such things to understand the forces that cause such things to manifest, and the information transforms that occur across different biological and dimensional boundaries. Quantum or temporally resonant information is not the same as the relational transformations that occurs in parallel processes for instance. If you are using techniques that have been tested by a tradition having sucess with making a ripple at the nonlocal level is typically engrained within the symbology of that practice. If you are developing your own techniques understanding the forces involved in making that transition of information sucessful is more important.
understand the forces that cause such things to manifest, and the information transforms that occur across different biological and dimensional boundaries.
Yeh, man, that shit sounds above my paygrade. You're talking about possibly understanding mechanisms of karma, with what you're talking about. Crazy. I ain't built for that shit. I can get to most places I want to go with knowing that those laws exist, I don't need to know how they function. Shit, man. Sounds like you might be the one monkeying with source code, buddy...
I think you're studying magic on a much higher level than I am. I use pop new age internet trash to get rid of weeds in my front yard. Maybe score some coin. Defend myself. Kinda low level stuff. All I ever needed.
developing your own techniques
I don't think this is what I'm doing. I think many magic practitioners use the methods I speak about. To what degree is the only question. When you employ these methods, and obtain results, the picture that is painted for you is one where mastering your own personal story is both the to key to ascension and the key to magic. That can't be my technique.
understanding the forces involved in making that transition of information sucessful is more important.
So far, the only understanding I have needed was in the transition of information to my subconscious. NLP kinda stuff. Where it goes from there? You tell me, man, I only work here.
You are far more powerful than they will ever tell you.
sirujux wrote: that reminds me im a grunt or whatever. grunt star seed in a animal human state to be exact heh
A pack of human animal star seed grunts humping the boonies of battlefield Gaia.
You are far more powerful than they will ever tell you.
